Changes Proposed to Laws in Ireland

Ireland may lower the age of consent, but bring the sentencing against women who commit “incest” up to the level that applies to men. I wish “incest” would be defined in the article, even if not in the law. As I have consitently maintained, there is a big difference between child abuse and sex between consenting adults.

THE GOVERNMENT will publish new proposals to lower the age of consent to 16 years, down from the current age of 17, early in the new year.

I neither support nor oppose this. Generally, I support the age of consent being no higher than 18. I do not think lowering the age of consent under 16 is a good idea. I also don’t think teenagers who are close in age to one another should be prosecuted for consensual sex.

It also proposes raising the maximum sentence for women who commit incest to life, up from the current seven-year maximum sentence, which was recently imposed on a mother of six.

The sentencing standards for convictions of child molestation or child rape or statutory rape should be the same regardless of genders. Consensual sex between adults should not be a crime.

The Incest News blog also picked up this story.

Update on Maura and James

A comment on a previous update on Maura and James prompted me to check to see what the latest news was about them. I found this article, complete with pictures blurred to protect their identities. They had their wedding, but were planning to leave Ireland.

But so determined are they to spend the rest of their lives together that they sealed their union during an intimate civil marriage ceremony last week.

And in a further twist, the couple, who discovered they were siblings after they conceived their first child, are expecting another baby.

But the pressures of the secret they have shared for years is forcing them to emigrate as they fear that if they remain living in Ireland it will only be a matter of time before the authorities become aware of their identities and prosecute them for being involved in an incestuous relationship.

I wonder if they’ve left yet, and how the baby is doing?

‘But I never had any second thoughts about going through with the wedding. A few weeks into our relationship I definitely knew that I wanted to marry James,’ says Maura.

May they have a long and happy life together, and may the laws catch up with the times and stop hindering consensual relationships.

Maura and James, if you find this blog, please contact me to let us know how you are doing. I’ll share anything you want me to share here, or if you’d rather not make more news I’ll keep the correspondence private.

Congrats to James and Maura From Ireland

The Irish sibling couple have a healthy child together and have decided to get married, as I wrote before. They are now expecting their second child, and the brother and sister are leaving Ireland in search of more freedom. We wish them a good pregnancy and birth, a healthy baby, and a happy life together.

Shame on those who want to deny them their rights as a family. Families come in a variety of shapes and sizes and that is one reason we need full marriage equality.

Irish Brother and Sister Plan Wedding

The Irish Mail (Daily Mail) has given an update on a woman and her half brother. I blogged about them before.

And even though the couple – known as ‘James’ and ‘Maura’ – realise it is illegal for them to marry, they say they are still determined to spend the rest of their lives together and will break the law to do so.

Why would anyone else care to stop people who are in love from marrying?

James said: ‘We have applied to get married and there are no mistakes in the paperwork so we will be able to wed at the end of this month.

‘We were aiming for Christmas but we have decided to do it sooner. Maura has got her wedding dress, we’ve ordered identical suits for myself and our son. We’ve also ordered a cake and we plan to go on a honeymoon a few weeks after the wedding.

‘It will be a very small wedding. We have two witnesses who we know very well and they know about our situation. I don’t know whether our father will come or whether any of our parents will be there.

I can understand that parents may have a hard time when their children find love this way, just as it is hard to accept when their child comes out as gay or lesbian. But I urge parents to honor the love that their children have and support the freedom to marry. Don't let insitutionalized prejudice hurt the relationship you have with your children.

So strong was their mutual attraction that just one week after meeting, they both felt they had known each other for a lifetime.

Two years later, Maura became pregnant and the couple moved in together. Later that year their son, Mark, was born.

This sounds like so many other relationships. That’s because really, it is like so many other relationships.

Here’s a recap of how this happened…

Since Christmas, with the help of DNA tests and gentle questioning, James and Maura have discovered the following: On a night out in the Eighties, Carmel, then aged 19, met Tom, and the pair dated for four or five weeks before going their separate ways.

However, after discovering she was pregnant with James, Carmel opted not to tell Tom she was expecting his child.

By the time James was born, she was in a relationship with Vincent, and it was he who she named as James’s father on the baby’s birth certificate. It was not until about four years later that Tom discovered Carmel had had a child.

Keen to find out whether he was the boy’s father, he made contact. Many of the details about what happened next are sketchy. However, what is clear is that even though Tom was by now married and the father of a daughter, he was determined to be a part of his son’s life and embarked on a legal battle to win access.

However, it was the Eighties and court cases like this were few and far between. But Tom was undeterred and, when the case was heard behind closed doors, Carmel admitted that Tom was indeed James’s biological father.

However, the court ruled that James should not be told who his real father was, and that Tom should not be given access to the young boy.

The couple points out that the same legal system that denied James access to his biological father shouldn’t be respected when it says he should not be allowed to marry the woman he loves, the mother of his child.

princess_pow in London had a good comment on the article…

They're in a difficult and painful position, but there doesn't seem to be anything even slightly abusive about this relationship. If their child (which they had before they knew the situation) is healthy, then nobody is being hurt by this - quite the opposite, at least the child will grow up with parents who love him and one another, and I wish them luck and hope their secret identities remain secret.

They shouldn’t have to hide to have a good life. Shame on those who keep laws in place that encourage a stigma.

Have Understandings

We should not allow same-sex, consanguineous, or polyamorous love to be tied to deception, betrayal, or abuse. We need to call people on it when they do it unfairly, but we also need to live in a way that doesn’t give bigots the excuse to continue denying equality. That means being open with our loved ones about who we are and what we need.

I believe in partners being open. If you want to be monogamous and you want your partner to be monogamous, you should find someone who wants that life. If you want to get married to one person or two persons, but have secondaries you don’t marry, and everyone agrees, then that should be supported. If you agree to talk about everything or talk about nothing that happens with others, then stick to that.

If you change your mind or discover something new about yourself that changes the situation, you should discuss that so that everyone can decide what to do going forward.

In the case of someone who wrote a letter to an advice columnist, a married woman has fallen in love with another man, but still loves her husband, but her husband doesn’t know. The new man is her brother.

Things seemed to melt away as my brother massaged my back. I felt an onrush of relief which soon turned into something more sensual. My brother wasn't responsible for what happened next, and did not take advantage of me, although he did go along with it. I remember feeling closer to him than I ever did with my husband, whom I love dearly and on whom I have never cheated.

I asked my brother to take off my bra and then my knickers, the sex was prolonged, deliberate and extremely satisfying. We talked openly about it the following morning, had no regrets, but agreed it simply should not happen again.

People should not go behind the back of a spouse when there is an expectation of monogamy or some other form of polyamory. They should have had a regret: that neither of them discussed this with their spouses before going ahead. But to be fair, it was unexpected. It was a moment of discovery for her, and perhaps for him.

I find it appalling that I committed incest with my brother, I have confessed the sin, and was helped by a very understanding priest. Yet the experience has given me a sort of erotic charge and a sense of personal self-confidence that I feel is wrong.

When we embraced last Christmas at a family get-together it was in a normal brother/sister fashion, but I found it sexually exciting. If I know he'll be present on any occasion, I put on my best clothes and even wear fancy lingerie, though I have not the slightest intention, or expectation, of any physical contact.

The poor woman appears to be conflicted more because of societal prejudice against consanguineous love than she is about going behind her husband’s and sister-in-law’s backs. The former shouldn’t trouble her. The latter is where the real issue sits.

Her love for her husband has increased, not diminished. If the same thing has happened to her brother’s love for his wife, then they are all benefitting, especially since she loves her brother more than she did before. It would be great if they could all discuss the matter like mature adults and come to some understanding. She enjoyed sex with her brother, and if everyone is agreeable, why deny her?

Irish Brother and Sister Find Love, Make a Family

In a possible case of Genetic Sexual Attraction, a man and woman met, fell in love, and had a child, and then discovered that they have the same biological father. The Daily Mail printed their story.

The extraordinary discovery was confirmed by DNA testing just last month. It has left the couple stunned and shaken – but they are nonetheless vowing to stay together and have more children.

Good for them! Hopefully, the law and community will celebrate and encourage them, rather than attack and oppress them. Laws are on the books that could be used to persecute them.

They have asked that their son be referred to as Mark; James’s mother as Carmel, and his stepfather as Vincent. The name ‘Tom’ is given to the man who, it turns out, fathered both James and Maura.

They’re afraid that their children may be attacked by peers. This is why acceptance of all families needs to be taught.

Carmel had met Tom on a night out during the 1980s. She was 19. They dated for the next four to five weeks but the romance soon fizzled out and they went their separate ways.

But they did sleep together – and during her month-long relationship with Tom, Carmel became pregnant with James.

However, she didn’t tell Tom that she was expecting his child and, by the time James was born, she was already involved in a relationship with Vincent. So it was Vincent who was named as James’s father on his birth certificate.

The child James and Maura already have is apparently healthy. There is no reason to deny them, or anyone else, marriage equality.

But you see that there is bigotry out there.
Everyone would be fine if we didn’t attack people for loving each other. How dare anyone talk about splitting them up? If it weren't for the intrusion of rudeness of others, there would be no issue here, other than what the article discusses: whose names should be on birth records.