A Good Question

Stefan1991 asked “Why is Incest illegal in the UK?” He cites a mother and father of four children. This couple story of this is well known to people who follow news about consanguineous sex, as they were both jailed for loving each other as they are brother and sister.

Who has the right to say that a consensual relationship is wrong?

Glen_Nichols gave the standard, ignorant reply…

The kids will be mutants.

As has been pointed out many times before, most sex does not result in births, most children born to consanguineous parents are healthy, and, finally, we do not deny people their reproductive rights based on the likelihood of their offspring having birth defects or inherited diseases.

Lewroll had a strong reaction, but was unable to provide a logical argument to keep consanguineous sex criminalized…

Ok, thats it, I've had enough. This has gone too far!!

This attitude of let two consenting adults do whatever they want is fine...up to a point.

Incest is sick, and if it ever becomes legal....just the thought of it makes me want to be sick.

Then don’t do it. Don’t want such a relationship? Don’t have one.

How would you feel if your brother and sister came home one day and told you they had been having sex?

I’m happy for any consenting adults who have found love, or at least a good time, with each other, as long as they aren’t violating existing vows to another.

Stefan1991 returned to the discussion to expose what a weak argument Lewroll was using…

What would you do if your mum came home one day and said she had raunchy sex with your dad. Oh, would you feel sick then too? Better ban parental sex as well.

Exactly. Just because someone is turned off or disgusted does not mean everyone else should have to refrain.

The discussion goes on for many more messages.

What if you couldn't marry the person you love? Think about that.

What Muslims in Britain Think About Polygyny

A British Muslim matchmaking website polled users to find out their attitudes towards polygyny. I would think that more that support it, the more business for the website!

SingleMuslim.com Director, Adeem Younis said: "We chose to run this survey in light of recent media stories referencing polygamy, marriage and Islamic law, both here in the UK and internationally.

"The survey results suggest that there are varying views within the Muslim community as to the extent to which polygamy is permissible. I'm not an Islamic scholar, but when I read the Qur'an, I interpret that polygamy is permissible only in exceptional circumstances. The poll results show that the majority of Muslims share my view.

"Yet the survey does highlight a perception that many Muslims interpret the Qur'an to mean that a man may take several wives, without exception."

Polygamy is discussed in two sections of the Qur'an (Sura Al-Nesaa' 4:3 and 4:127). The passages explain how polygamy may be allowed to protect widows and orphaned children.

The Qur'an permits polygamy on condition that the husband treats all his wives with equal respect, emotionally as well as financially. However, the Qur'an later describes the impossibility of treating several wives equally. Therefore monogamy is the norm for most Muslims.

Treating more that one wife equally does not mean treating them the same. One wife may want more time alone than another. One wife might want sex more often than the other. As long as the wives are having their needs met and he is having his needs met, it is a good thing, right? Legalize it.

Kirsty Paterson Has Sentence Reduced

To update a case we've been following, Kirsty Paterson has had her prison sentence removed by judges. She was convicted of the "crime" of having consensual sex with her father.

Both she and Stephen Paterson, 44, admitted committing incest after their sexual relationship was discovered and a sheriff jailed them for 16 months each.

Outrageous. This is the 21st century, and people are still getting assigned prison time for consensual sex.

But judges at the Court of Criminal Appeal in Edinburgh quashed the daughter's prison sentence and placed her on probation for two years with a condition that she get counselling as required.

Why does someone need "therapy" for this?

The judge said it should be "immediately recognised" that incest was a serious offence and where committed by an adult on a child the adult offender could expect a prison sentence. But he added: "The situation of consensual intercourse between consanguineous adults is a different one."

Lord Carloway said the court required to mark its disapproval of Paterson's criminal conduct but ultimately had to consider whether sending her to jail was the appropriate method of dealing with her.

Of course loving sex is different than child molestation or rape. Carloway should have taken a stand against the absurdity of the law that punishes the former.

Paterson's father separately attempted to appeal against his sentence late, but it was refused.

Future generations are going to look back and wonder how these authorities could have been so hateful. Consenting adults have a right to sex, love and marriage.

Woman Considering Half-Brother

Someone signing her letter “Anon. Cardiff” wrote in to an advice column in the UK. She seems to be experiencing GSA. After thinking she was an only child all of her life, she found out that she had a half-brother about her age, and she met him.

Straight away I thought how attractive he was (we look alike!) but the attraction is turning into something more. From cuddles (like brother and sister) we’re beginning to hold on for too long and getting a bit tactile. Would it be so wrong?

Before I could answer this, I’d need to know if this woman is in a closed relationship. If she isn’t in a relationship, or is in an open relationship, than no, it wouldn’t be wrong. But the person writing the answer, “Linda”, pulls out the prejudice right away.

Yes, according to our laws on incest.

We used to have laws against same-sex relationships, too. The laws are wrong, not consensual sex between adults.

These would have been implemented to protect the vulnerable from exploitation and disturbing, harmful acts by relatives; also to guard against the double severity of genetic disorders being passed on to offspring of incestuous relationships.

Ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of children born with genetic disorders in the West are born to nonconsanguineous couples, and most children born to consanguineous couples are at least as health as the general population. This would be consensual behavior, not assault.

Stop trying to get other people to conform to your ideals. This could be the great love of her life.

Sibling Couple Supported by Mother?

Following up on a Scottish sibling couple, this report says they have the support of their mother.

Karina Cameron said she was horrified when she caught son Nick, 31 and daughter Danielle Heaney, 25, in the act, The Sun newspaper reports.

Some people are horrified when they see their parents having sex, or someone they are related to having sex with someone else, or when they see anyone else having sex, or when they see someone masturbating, or when they see two men kiss on the lips. It doesn’t mean that they have seen something wrong.

Nick was taken into foster care as a baby while his half-sister Danielle Heane was raised by their mother.

Mr Cameron and Ms Heaney met for the first time in 2006 and described the meeting as "love at first sight".

They think they are experiencing genetic sexual attraction. I wonder if Karina experienced any attraction to Nick and if her reaction wasn’t at least partially out of jealousy. Couples like Nick and Danielle can be especially radiant together.

Ms Cameron said despite being initially disgusted by her children's' behaviour, she now understood it was likely because of GSA.

People can’t control their immediate feelings. They felt attraction and she felt disgust when she found them having sex. What is important is how the feelings are handled. Many parents have struggled with the love lives of their children, no matter how old.

"The moment I saw him, I knew he was the man I wanted to be with for the rest of my life," Ms Heaney said.

Mr Cameron said the moment he met Ms Heaney he felt an overwhelming love for her.

That’s beautiful.

The pair pursued a physical relationship despite Ms Heaney being married with a young child.

That’s isn’t so beautiful if it happened behind her spouse’s back.

Their mother reported them to the police after she caught them having sex on the sofa of Ms Heaney's house.

The couple were handed a suspended sentence for multiple charges of incest and told they will be jailed if they have sex again.

Ridiculous. The police should have told her they have more important things to do than bother people in love, but since they didn’t, the courts should have dismissed the case. Shame on everyone involved in prosecuting two consenting adults.

I want to know what this support is that her mother now offers. Does she leave them be? Is she willing to support changes in the law? Linda, Matthew, and Melissa are all very supportive of each other and none of them begrudges the other two spending time alone. But they certainly do enjoy their time all together, too. So do I, when I’m there.

The article, thankfully, did not heap derision on the couple.

Brother and Sister Still Under Attack

According to this British news source, Nick Cameron and his half-sister Daniell Healey are sharing a home after having been convicted of incest and banned by sheriff from having sex.

What should be news is that anyone is trying to stop consenting adults from sharing a life.

They had embarked on their sordid affair weeks after meeting each other for the first in summer 2006.

Sordid? What is sordid about a loving relationship? What goes on inside their home shouldn’t be anyone else’s business. Articles like this lead to more problems for teens and others who aren't open and supported, who are already struggling. It sends the message that they are not worthy, that they are hated for loving the person they do.

Follow Up: Adults Jailed For Private Consensual Sex

A couple in Scotland is being sent to jail for sixteen months because they have sex with each other. Maybe some day, the authorities there will realize it is the 21st century. Billy Paterson reports on this unjust action.

Stephen Paterson, 44, and Kirsty Paterson, 26, became infatuated with each other after she turned up on his doorstep in Girvan two years ago.

Until then, he never knew she existed.

Even after they appeared in court on incest charges, the pair breached bail conditions to have sex in a B&B in Ayr.

They’re not only consenting, they’re in love. This is a victimless crime. Well, almost.

Paterson and his daughter began to form a relationship which his wife, Rosemary Alcroft, felt "uncomfortable" with.

Gale Harding, prosecuting, told an earlier hearing at Ayr Sheriff Court: "Rosemary Alcroft was the account holder for both her and her husband's mobile phone.

"On June 7, 2009, she uncovered messages between Stephen Paterson and his daughter."

She said the messages indicated that the father and daughter "were engaged in a sexual relationship".

Like I wrote before, it is good to have understandings and not go behind someone else’s back.

They were released on bail with the condition that they did not approach or contact each other.

But on June 30 a neighbour of Paterson's who knew about the case saw the pair together in Prestwick - and contacted police.

Can you imagine calling the police because you saw two adults together? It’s not like they have conspired to engage in violence or theft or racketeering. Some people are cruel.

Robert Campbell, defending Kirsty, said: "She felt her father was very proud of her and for the first time she felt loved by someone and grew close to her father emotionally."

Sheriff Cunningham told the pair: "The gravity of this case is such that a custodial sentence is the only appropriate disposal."

Shame on Sheriff Cunningham. Kristy finally found love, and she is being forced away from it.

This news report goes so far as to call Stephen a pervert and refers to their love as “sordid.” That’s nothing more than bigotry. Leave them alone. Let them marry if they so choose. Whether or not they are experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction is nobody else's business.

But Scottish authorities and media have reacted this way before, as you can see in what I wrote about another couple.

Scottish Man Jailed For Two Years For Consanguineous Sex

There’s more news about a case I wrote about before – see here. The father is being jailed for two years for having sex with his adult daughter. He was a widower, and her marriage was over. Why is this a crime? Why shouldn’t they be allowed and encouraged to marry so that the children can have an intact family?

He was able to exploit the fact that his daughter, who is now 46, suffered from "mild learning difficulties"

Someone with learning disabilities isn’t able to consent or decline consent? That’s going to put a lot of people at risk for prosecution.

Jailing the dad - who cannot be identified for legal reasons - at the High Court in Edinburgh, Judge Lord Woolman said he was taking into account the fact that no force was used.

No force was used. Yet he's going to jail.

Today, defence advocate Shahid Latif, asking for leniency, said the man was genuinely ashamed and remorseful. He had never been in trouble before and had pleaded guilty to the charges as early as possible to prevent a trial.

He has nothing of which to be ashamed. I’m ashamed there are laws that interfere with love.

Lord Woolman told the man: "You did not use force. The children think of you as their father and you daughter will be upset if you go to prison."

So why jail him?

Someday, future generations are going to look back and wonder what the big deal was.